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so I changed the beforefilter of users controller to if($this->action == 'add' || $this->action == 'edit') { if(Configure::read('isLoggedIn') && $this->action == 'edit') { $this->Auth->authenticate = $this->User; } } I write the user vars etc in the beforefilter of app controller additionally if the user is unable to resiger (a guest adding themselves as a user) I set the password fields to blank (user controller add if the save does not work) if($this->validateErrors($this->User)) { //die('we get here'); $this->data['User']['password'] = ''; $this->data['User']['password_confirmation'] = ''; }